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Author Topic: New Here  (Read 1604 times)

Bulldogger

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New Here
« on: November 09, 2010, 12:47:38 AM »

Hello Everyone,
I'm new here.  I lost a dog 17 years ago to blasto (confirmed case) and now I have another dog that I suspect might possibly have it.  I came here looking for more info and possibly feedback.  Here's a little more of the story...

I live in a rural area in Northern Alabama.  I currently own several American Bulldogs.  My family has around 40 acres in a remote area, that is fenced-in with a pond.  My husband and I quite often take our dogs to this property, to let them run loose and just be dogs.

We have been going through a drought though and the last time we were there, my dog got on the trail of a deer.  He chased it until he gave slap out.  He came back all hot and tired and plodded around in the pond (which due to the drought only has a couple inches of water left in it).  It's mostly muck now.  After that leisure pond getaway, I started noticing some skin lesions crop up that have not healed, regardless of what I put on them, and has also had what appears to be conjunctivitis off and on.  Approx a week or so ago, he developed a gagging type cough.

Having lost a dog to blasto in the past, it suddenly dawned on me that perhaps we might be dealing with the same thing, so I started reading up on it again to help refresh my memory.  I must confess it's been such a long time, I had forgot about blasto, let alone how dangerous it was for me to be letting my dogs plod around in the pond or dig in the dirt all of this time.

After refreshing my memory on blasto,  I took my dog straight away to the vet and told them what I suspected.  The vet checked him and said he had a bit of fever.  She drained fluid from one of the lesions, but didn’t find anything.  She felt his lymph nodes and said nothing seemed swollen.  She also did some bloodwork and said everything came back ok with it.  She did a chest xray and that’s where it get’s a bit tricky.

For the most part, the lungs looked normal, but there were some things that didn’t look right.  She said he did not have the typical snowflake pattern that is often seen with the blasto, however he did have several of what appeared to be unidentified masses.  She gave me a run down of things it could possibly be..  areas of infection or inflammation, swollen lymphatic tissue or tumors (benign or malignant).

She more or less felt he had pneumonia and put him on antibiotics to see how he does.  She said she is not ruling out blasto, but after the antibiotics will probably follow up with another chest xray and to see if there has been any improvement and we go from there.  For now, he doesn’t seem to be coughing as bad and his temp is back to normal (course I know none of this guarantees anything).   I have also been giving him 2000mg vitamin C and also a little extra vitamin E, hoping to help boost his immune system.

One thing I am worried about is being able to afford the medicines, in case we need to start him right away.  We talked about Ketoconazole, which she said they had had pretty good results with.  I actually have around 30 of these pills that are not very old already.  I can probably afford the Ketoconazole, because I can get it at a little discount, however the other drugs they treat this condition with, esp the Itraconazole, I may not be able to afford, esp if they are much more expensive.

I’m also worried about the toxicity with any of these anti-fungal drugs.  I’m wondering would it be ok to give milk thistle in between dosages, to help protect the liver from being damaged.  Also I own a nebulizer and I make HVAC colloidal silver for my own personal use and wondering if anyone else has tried milk thistle for it’s protective benefits or used colloidal silver with this disease?

I used to give my dogs a product called Nzymes and Oxi-drops, but it has been a while since I ordered from them.  Their plan seems to help yeast infections, although I have no idea if it would work on something systemic like blasto.  Any thoughts or feedback would be much appreciated.  Thanks in advance and sorry for the long-winded post.

Thanks again,
Lou       
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Bulldogger

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Re: New Here
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2010, 03:01:16 AM »

Also could someone help me a bit with the med dosages.  I'm just trying to get an idea of the cost and if my dog needs to go on an anti-fungal, which option would be better for him etc.  My dog weighs approx 110lbs.

Just tell me if this sounds like I'm figuring half way right..  Sorry, I'm a blonde and I'm terrible at math!!   ;D    

Itraconazole given @ 5mg per lb of body weight twice daily?  110 X 5 = 550   550 X 2 = 1100mgs per day total?  If it's $1.00 per 100mg pill, that's $11.00 a day??

Ketoconazole given @ up to 13mg per lb of body weight every 12hrs or twice daily?  110 X 13 = 1430   1430 X 2 = 2860mgs per day total.  The cheapest I found Ketoconazole was $19.99 for 30 200mg pills.  (I have one prescription of this at home already).

Fluconazole ?? have no idea of the recommended dosage is for this for treating blasto

Also, if I were going to use Walmart pharmacy, do I just get the vet to write it out and take it to them to fill or what?  Same as with those compounding pharmacies?


Thanks,
Lou
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benniesmom

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Re: New Here
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2010, 07:56:09 AM »

hi. I just read your post.. This is new to me, too, and has been my obsession since we found out......I have a Greyhound with Blasto.... First of all, Fluco is not expensive, it will be $35 a month for Bennie who weighs 70 some lbs. 80 before the blasto...... Itra is very expensive, for Ben it would be aoround 300 a month. I cannot.... I would check around and see which pharmacy is cheaper, and go with Fluco... I found a smaller pharmacy that knows about the disease and is doing this price for us....... Itra is first choice if it's in lungs, but Fluco (Fluconazole) will cross the central nervous system barrier so it is the one to use if eyes and/or brain are involved...... and it works for the lungs, too.....Those are the drugs to consider.

I don't know about the other things you mentioned. the C might give your boy diarhea and he could do without that...........but any nutrition you can help with is a good thing.... there is a terrific grocery list in the posts which you would be happy to have when the eating challenge comes up......includes things like pedialyte and ensure plus, gatorade, any kind of meat..... sausage, burgers, whatever... look for it... of if you don't have time, post again and I'll find my copy and post it ..........so many diagnoses stories sound like yours... the first vet here thought Ben had osteosarcome, as it showed up in his ribs.......

so this, too, is important. There is a urine test done by Mira Vista lab, your vet can do this.......which it's smart to get, and it will help tell yes or no, and also tell you what level you are at, so you know ... .40 and  up is what I have seen here.... the higher numbers are scarier......and the sores might get antifungal ointment, but here the word seems to be leave it uncovered. the little buggers love the damp and dark, so keep that out of their options.... I think this insidiious disease is hirrid, and it's worth gigving your beautiful Bullie Boy every chance. so see if you can get these other tests, and Good luck to you and don't beat yourself up for letting him be a dog..... this stuff is all over the place and they have to do what dogs do, go for the pond, play in the dirt..... it's O K .
Barb and Ben
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benniesmom

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Re: New Here
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2010, 08:00:55 AM »

some people have had mixed results wit the pee test.. I had it done, for what its worth.... Again, good luck.
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benniesmom

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Re: New Here
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2010, 08:12:05 AM »

I "bumped" the newsletter you will find the best info there and the grocery list... read the letter. it's actually down quite a ways from the top, because people kindly keep bumping it back up so it gets seen. it is the best.. Please readait....... and maybe print it out for your vet... and /or yourself.
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Bulldogger

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Re: New Here
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2010, 09:41:33 AM »

Thank you so much for your replies.  I am very sorry to hear about your dog and hope he responds to the treatment and makes a full and healthy recovery.  Wishing you both the best!  After reading through so many of these posts on here, it is just heartbreaking that the dogs (and their owners) have to go through this devastating disease.

I have read the newsletter and will show it to my vet when we go back and will also ask her about doing the Miravista test.  All of the signs to me seem to be pointing towards the blasto and I just have a gut feeling that perhaps we may have wasted some very vital time.

She was looking more for the snowflake pattern in the lungs, which my boy doesn't have, at least not yet anyway.  He has a few (unknown) masses instead.  The thing that bothers me more about this possibly being a blasto case is the possible eye and skin involvement.  If he didn't have those things I might be more inclined to agree to it just being a routine respiratory illness or even bacterial pneumonia.

Thanks again for your kindness and concern.  This is a wonderful, wonderful site and I am so thankful to have found it!!  Just to put a face to a name, here is a picture of my Doc.  The dog in my avatar is his daughter, Red Dog.


 
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benniesmom

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Re: New Here
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2010, 10:01:26 AM »

HE's one handsome dog. I would really push for paying attention to your gut feeling...... Bennie's is not in his lungs at all. It has only showed up in the rib... and it may be in the cns, as there is and has been some weird twitching. anybody ... out there. does that ring a bell???


Good luck with gorgeous. He looks just wonderful!
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Bulldogger

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Re: New Here
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2010, 02:26:49 PM »

Thanks so much!  I decided to post a couple of shots of the skin lesions...

This one is on his back left leg.



This is from his neck, right behind his ear.  One is an actual lesion, the other is mostly a bald patch.



This last image is just a bit smaller than a golfball-sized lump that is under the skin around the hip area.



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hippydog

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Re: New Here
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2010, 04:36:11 PM »

Sorry to hear about your dog!  Curby was diagnosed a little over a month ago from the Miravista pee test; it is not perfect, but I think catches 90% (i.e., 10% false negatives).  I also wanted to mention that Curby's lung xrays did not have the classic snowflake pattern either, so he was treated for bacterial pneumonia for a week and a half before we got the pee test.  And he had what they now believe is a fungal lesion in one lobe.  So the pattern is "classic" but not always there.

We have been so lucky in that he hasn't had many of the other symptoms besides respiratory and some lameness, but your pictures of the lesions look like others I've come across (many on this site) with blasto.

Good luck and hang in there!
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Bulldogger

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Re: New Here
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2010, 06:24:43 PM »

I am sorry to hear about Curby!  Thanks so much for your reply.  I will pass this information on to my vet, since she was looking for the snowflake pattern.  That last lesion that was under the skin is the one she aspirated, but she didn't find anything in it.  I'm going to go ahead and prepare to start treating him for this.  If it's not blasto, it may be one of the other systemic fungal diseases, but I am just thinking all the signs point towards blasto.  In the case of the dog I lost to blasto 17yrs ago, he was so sick by the time it was confirmed and they knew what they were dealing with, he died on the first day of treatment.

I was just hoping to catch this early enough to have a better prognosis and better chance of survival with my Doc.  He is like my shadow and follows me everywhere!  One small bit of comfort is that we are expecting a litter of pups from him and one of my females due just before Christmas, so I will most definitely be keeping a pup or two.  It's weird, we haven't bred him since 07, but we had a previous puppy buyer who contacted us because their little boy lost his dog in an unfortunate accident.  The little guy was just devastated and they wanted another pup from us.  We also had some other folks on our waiting list, so we decided to go ahead and breed them one last time before they got too old.  My female is 5 and Doc is 6, so this was probably going to be the last litter. 
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Wilson3

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Re: New Here
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2010, 07:03:33 PM »

WOW 17 yrs ago... things have gotten a bit better for the blasto vitums then that long ago. not where we want it to be but much better.

before we knew what wilson had the ED did find a small spot on wilsons lung they said not to worry about it they where concerned about all the other issues he had,the lungs for wilson got hit last

I gave wilson MT ,if you look on the case data page under wilson I have listed all the supplements I used

the difference between itra and flu is one is harder on the stomach the flu is
if I remember right the flu is better to use for eye and cns involvement and is cheaper to buy many people have used it with good luck
(i know it is posted on here just need to find it)

I used pet health pharmacy 175 mg $80.40 for 2 month supply was paying $175  for 1 month (3 yrs ago) many people have used this and very happy with them (used to treat a 50'ish pound dog)

the spots are lesions..and they biopsy them and not anything? it will take  a week to grow if they do not have the stuff ( the blue stuff sorry I do not remember the name of it,bad day at work)at the vets office to get results right away most do not keep it on the self because the self life is so short
how long has he been on the antibiotics? any improvement? if not then it usually in fungal

as for the itra andthe other fungal drugs being toxic ... with out them they will die so at least with using them right they have a chance

he is very lucky you are so watchful and remember blasto stay strong and keep on your vet time is very important
try the pee test many really are happy wih it
wilson3 
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Bulldogger

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Re: New Here
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2010, 08:39:28 PM »

Thanks so much Wilson3.  Where do I find the case data page?  Perhaps I am just overlooking it.
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apope43

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Re: New Here
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2010, 09:15:38 PM »

If it were me, I'd go ahead and do the pee test.  MiraVista is getting better every day.  That urine test sent back a positive, and two days later when she lost her eye they did the blasto test there and it was positive as well.  Your pup's skin lesions look a lot like Izzy's, as do the lumps, and she did not present with the typical snowflake pattern either -- it might be that you're catching it before it catches hold of her lungs.

Izzy's chest x-ray showed what looked like little tiny doughnuts -- we waited on the test a full week, and by the time it came back her lungs were pretty involved.  I know some people have had issues with MiraVista, but for me, I'd rather have something with 90% accuracy than waiting to see what else can happen.

Whatever path you choose - good luck.  I hate to hear you've already battled this once.  You're smart to be overly cautious - no one can fault you for that.  We do what we have to do to protect our pups to the best of our ability, and just like moms, we have good instincts. Trust them and do what you feel is best.

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Bulldogger

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Re: New Here
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2010, 11:59:05 PM »

Thanks again to everyone!  I will ask them to do the Miravista urine test and will give them their website.  My dog is still coughing and still seems much the same.. may be a tad worse.  I'm tired of waiting though and going to request they start him on the anti-fungal meds.  At least the quicker the meds get started, the better his chances hopefully.
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apope43

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Re: New Here
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2010, 12:07:00 AM »

I'm with you 100%.  The one regret I have through this process is not going ahead and sending off the urine test before we sent her in to get an emergency spay.  The timing resulted in the test waiting over the weekend, which was just enough time for her to lose her eye.  That said, it made the most sense at the time - I can't fault anyone for that.

Best of luck, let us know how it turns out..your pup is just SO beautiful, and you can just tell he's a little fighter!!
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