hydration/dehydration- when to get help?

[amy_in_mna]

I have another question.
Brooke has had subq fluids a couple of times during this illness.
I have a folder now for some of the info I have collected on blasto and taped to the front is a quote from Jen-
"concentrate on Breathing, Hydration, Eating, Comfort - in that order."  Because I can't be reminded enough that just because she doesn't want to drink or eat doesn't mean that I can let her skip it.

So, I really need to know (and yes, it is in my notes to ask the vet when we talk tomorrow) how to tell if Brooke needs fluid support.  She will go for a good couple days without eating or drinking when things are bad for her (she hardly moves)  We do try ice cubes, mixing a little chicken broth into her water and have tried syringing water in - we don't get very far.  When should Brooke go in to the vet for fluids?  We have waited too long in the past because we just don't know.  She does tend to run a high fever (over 105) when she is feeling poorly- that along with not drinking or eating worries me.
thanks for letting me learn from you
Amy and Brooke the lab (possible blasto, taking Keto now, compounded Intra arrives tomorrow, expecting serum and urine blasto tests by the end of this week.)

[Jen]

 It's hard to tell if they need extra fluids, but you can assume that they are always needing more.  Eva has had Marge on lots of subcutaneous fluids, I believe.  The more dehydrated they are, the worse the electrolyte imbalances are, and that makes it even harder on their circulatory system,.  Add to that the metabolic imbalances from not eating and from losing weight so rapidly, it can make them very unstable.
  Dirtbike was pretty good about drinking, even though she had to be force-fed.   Or maybe *because* she was force-fed.  She was so anorexic that we did whatever it took to get some calories into her.  Anytime we forced her to eat, she would drink heavily afterward. 
   The best way to make sure she drank was to shove a handful of peanut butter into her mouth and make her swallow it.  She hustled to the bowl and angrily drank it dry every time.  She was also fed Ensure Plus with a bottle.  She didn't want it, but when you pour it down their throat, they have little choice but to swallow or drown in it. 
   I know it sounds harsh, and it's hard to feel like you're causing them more suffering - but with the constant fever and all that goes with blasto, it's necessary. And eventually it pays off.

Jen   

[evayola]

With Marge we did give subq fluids almost everyday. Was it excessive? Absolutely not because she survived. Like I said, you can ask the vet to show you how to give fluids at home. It sounds as if Brooke will lay still for about 30 minutes so you shouldnt have a problem. It seems weird at first but we did it as a team. Dan (my boyfriend) would lay next to Marge and pet her and made sure the syringe wouldnt fall out and then I would hold the bag up high while it was going in. She was so great about it. The fluids cost around $10/bag so it could get pricey but we did it just for a couple weeks so she could bounce back. Like Jen said it does seem harsh but you cant just let her wither away either. No way would I let Marge go one day without any fluids. Think about how you would feel if you didnt have anything in you for a day and were being fed medication? Im sure its really hard on her tummy and system. The pedialyte popsicle (baby food department) was amazing for her as well. It had a good flavor which she liked and we just didnt let her spit them out. If it melted in her mouth then so be it. If Brooke is running a fever like that I would put some cool towels on her tummy and the vet also said that a washcloth soaked in rubbing alcohol on the pads of the paws is great too. Have you taken her temp? We kept a log of Marges temps throughout the day just to see when she would spike so we could help her out. Even if Brooke doesnt want to move I would make it a point of hanging out by her because you dont want her to feel like she is going at this alone. She needs support. I am sure you are already doing that though. Have you talked to your vet about anything to take her fever down? Marge took deramaxx for a week or so to take the edge of the fever and the pain she was in. I cannot stress enough how important it is for Brooke to be eating something and drinking something in order for the meds to work and her get better.
Eva

[mhitesman]

I found that my Comet drank much more water if I gave him filtered water (not tap water) with ice cubes when he was in treatment for blasto.  I continue the practice to this day, and I find the dogs prefer it so much that they will go to the water bowl and sit while looking at me to give them fresh, cold drink. 

[Kash-]

A quick and easy check for dehydration in any dog is to pinch up their neck skin, as much as you can grab ahold of and pull it up against gravity (use the top of the neck if they're standing , a side will work if they're laying down)  No need to be mean, just lift that extra loose skin up and let go.

If it quickly slides back into place with no hesitation, no hydration needed.

If it lags going back into place and leaves a little hill of skin poking up where you grabbed, they need a drink, but probably not bad off.

If it barely slides back into place or leaves a big handfull sticking up, I'd go and get an IV or subq fluids right now.

This isn't just a blasto thing, If you have hard working dogs, or hike out during the summer it's good to know.  My vet put in a bag of fluid and the associated tube and needle in my K9 first aid kit. 

Another good one to have handy is one of those nearly instant read thermometers.  Many dogs have different core temps, it's a good thing to know what your dog's base line temp is.  Granted, it's not the most pleasant thing, but the dogs seem pt mind less than the humans do!  (Also, try not to confuse the human thermometer, from the doggy one.  I colored the doggy one with a big brown magic marker, so you can even tell in the dark and not put something in your mouth that you really don't want to)

Lastly, I have another doggy health "dip stick" reading.  Pull up a lip (the dog's of course) and look at the gum above the big canine tooth.  Should be pink and glossy. (or pink with spots depending on your dogs mouth colors)  Press the pad of your thumb against the gum firmly for a few seconds and then release.  Observe how the blood fills back in on the depressed tissue.  Quickly?  Does the less pink depressed gum fill back up and turn back to bright pink promptly or does it lag?  Does the gum seem grayish?


Those are my 30 second check under the hood to tell if a dog is just acting weird or acting sick.

Anybody else got any?

[carolh]

Kash, you win the prize for flat out good common sense advice.

Here's a bit I can add.  We had a cat who needed subq hydration daily.  Vet charge was $25 a bag.  I went on line to Lambriars (I'm not sure they are still in business but there are other sites like it) and got bag of needed fluids for $3 each.  Of course, no prescription needed.  The set up -- tube, needles, etc. was, if I remember correctly, in the vicinity of $5.  This was a few years back so prices will certainly have risen, but even so, no one should have to pay exorbitant amounts for bagged water.

Carol

[Kash-]

I found that my Comet drank much more water if I gave him filtered water (not tap water) with ice cubes when he was in treatment for blasto.  I continue the practice to this day, and I find the dogs prefer it so much that they will go to the water bowl and sit while looking at me to give them fresh, cold drink. 

My dog's love Ice cubes in their water.  I have well water, so there's no chlorine smell to put them off.  We always put ice in their water, just cause they like it.

That's a good tip for dogs struggling with appetite and hydration.