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[kincraft]

Our dog Gunner, a boxer, had a cough for over 18months, and 3 vets later, 2 courses of antibiotics for "bronchitis", and every test available he got significantly worse.  Lost 20 lbs and lost appetitie, lethargic, constant cough.  Xray showed snowstorm in lungs.  More tests - vets kept thinking it was a cancer that matasticized to the lungs that they just couldn't find.  We did research and became convinced it was blasto or histo - and we are in Florida!  Vets are very unfamiliar with this.  We demanded itraconazole prescription figuring "what could it hurt" as we were losing him.  In the first week of 3-100mg/day dose he stopped coughing for a while and actually perked up though the appetite faded quickly (as we expected).  Now 14 days into itra therapy (we scaled back the dose after 7 days to balance the anorexia) and we have a refill on the script coming from Canada for a 90 day initial treatment.
However, Gunner now refuses to eat anything.  We have tried virtually everything on the list and are cooking him 4 different meals at times every 4 hours.  Chicken, broth, pork, ground beef, stuffing, mashed potatoes, cheese, hot dogs, bologna - you name it and we have tried it.  We are now down to force feeding ensure plus through a turkey baster every 4-6 hours with the pills.  Some good signs initially was a discharge of the dead yeasty stuff coming out when he coughed.  But now he sounds full of fluid and pants shallowly.  He is coughing continuously and clear liquid and even "foamy bubbles of spit" come out.  He seems worse now 14 days in than he did at 7.  He wants nothing to do with food and doesn't even like to get up.  Some lameness in the front right leg when he first gets up that he "walks off."
I know there is no "normal" progress in these cases, but he is so thin and we are so sad and scared.  We've even tried the bronchial dialators (no effect).  Can the lungs fill up with fluid as the fungus dies and "drown" him?  Are we doing everything we can?  Please, are there any words of encouragement, because now we worry that we are verging on inhumane and question whether to continue.  Are we helping or prolonging his pain?
Scott

[jiggasmom]

It always seems with Blasto when the treatment is started things get worse. Jigga was really sick but once we started him on treatment that night he was 100x worse it seemed. He was always a hungry hippos and then he refused to eat. We did get him to eat mcdonalds cheeseburgers. When would get him to eat something he would only something once or twice. He refused to move, his breathing was awful. all he did was cry and moan. The 1st few weeks are the WORST. I know some people on here had to force feed their dogs as well. Be strong. The beginning is the hardest part.

[carolh]

Hi Scott,

I don't have any advice for you with Gunner but most of us have been through this and you can know there are a whole lot of us out here sending you our strongest wishes for success and support.  This is the toughest time.  It is ghastly.   Sometimes we win and sometimes we lose but most of us opt to fight this as hard as we can.  You will find entries on this forum that tell the story you're telling -- and they pull their dogs through.  So best to you.  Hang in there.  It can get better!
Carol

[Wilson3]

Scoot I am so sorry for you and your family!
Poor Gunnr...HAve you gotten a positive test result for blasto?
Sometimes when using a turkey bastre the liquid can come back up through the nose.

Have you tried using canned dog food?
A high protein one like Innova,Wellness (no grains in them)(just to name a couple)
Tripe always works form my dogs,it smell horrible if you have never used it use small amounts at first

jiggasmom has a good idea get a Mcdonalds burger and while you are eating it bite off some take out of your month and offer to Gunner
also try putting any type of people food in a bowl or plate so Gunner sees it and sees you eating it the offer it to him
(dogs will usually want what you are eating)
peanut butter put on the roof of the mouth
trying feeding with a spoon ( mine love to eat off spoons,forks anything we use to eat with)
with anything you offer that you are also eating make a BIG deal out of it like MMMMMMMM this is SO GOOD! sit on th efloor with him while you do it
steak also works great to get them to eat
try liver boil it first then cut up into small peices mix in a very small amount of garlic put on cookie sheet bake in oven low temp until dryed out the smell will be nasty to you but good to him
(feed small amounts if he is not use to eating liver)
the stonger the smell the better of anything you can find to get him to eat smell is what gets them to want to eat
you can pretend to eat anything you offer him but be convincing that you just love it!
I would use a bowl that we ate out of put wilsons food in it and use a spoon and hold the bowl so he could not see that I really was not eat the stuff but went through the motons like I was the offered him some. It didn't work right away but I kept trying and when he turned his head I would hold the bowl with the spoon to my month and and go MMMMM wilson this is soooo good! you do not know what you are missing

The first weeks even couple months are horrible!
You have to stay stronge and positive! You will know "if" Gunner has given up and is time. Go with your gutt feelings.
Sit with Gunner hold him tell him how wonderful he is doing praise him for EVERYTHING he does
Talk to him about the fun times you have had ( picture them in your mind also) Tell him about the things you still want to do with him ( picture them also in your mind)
Cry with him, let him know how much you love him and that you are alright with what every he wants to do.
Are you giving him a pain pill? It helps with the breathing and settles them . We using until Wilsons fever dropped,which was when all the swelling went down in his legs.(first 3 months) When his fever was high he would not do anything. We used Previcox and it really helpped! I do know some say not to use a pain pill I was one in the beginng because it really is har don them,but if used right and only as long as needed it REALLY helps them get through the really hard time.I looked at it also if it was myself or son or mom, I would want them as comfortable as I could make them. Some used other pain meds.

Take a deep breathe and go with your gutt feelings they will lead you in the right path.
Your family will be in my thoughts!
please keep us updated!
Give Gunner a big hug from us  :)Tell him he is stronge and brave for fighting so hard!
wilson3

[gunner]

Hi Kincraft,

My heart always thumps when I see a "Gunner" on here.  I am so sad to hear of his troubles. 

Like you, I had to fight for a diagnosis and treatment in a part of the country where blasto is also unheard of.  My Gunner got blasto from imported hardwood bark mulch from the Mississippi valley.  I too had to force feed Gunner for weeks. 

When you are feeding with the Turkey baster, are you sure to put the baster BETWEEN the jowels and the back teeth and not try to force it down the throat?  Keep the chin slightly elevated, but not too much. Feed it slowly so that he can lap and swallow as you dribble the food into him.

May I also suggest that to start, you get canned a/d dog food from your vet.  It is super calorie rich food and a little goes a long way.  For my Gunner, I would blend 1/2 a can of a/d with a bottle of ensure plus for her and feed her slowly with a big syringe I got from the vet for that purpose.  Popping her pills down her throat with a teaspoon of Butter made everything go down a lot easier.

As far as the breathing.  I know it is VERY hard to watch.  My grandmother died of lung cancer and the doctor said it is amazing how the body can keep going when there is no visible sign of real lung tissue left.  With Gunner still trying to cough, it means he is still fighting so hang in there with him.  Don't give up too soon.  Many dog owners with real breathing problems found it very bennificial to put a fan on the dog.  Moving air seems to help a lot.  Jen even took Dirtbike for long car rides with Dirt's head hanging out the window to help the air get in the lungs better.  Anything you can think of to help him breath easeir will help.  My vet had me banging on Gunner's ribs to help move the stuff out of her lungs.  It was amazing the stuff she coughed up.  It is a very rough ride, but hang in there.  As long as Gunner is fighting, keep fighting too, and love and strokes and cuddles cannot be over rated at this time.
 
Wishing you both the very best and a very speedy recovery,
Joyce

[kincraft]

Thank you all for the info and kind words of encouragement.  Tonight at 11:30pm Gunner ate solid food for the first time in 48 hours.  Granted it was only about a cup of Velveeta shells and cheese, but it was a miracle to us.  Just when I thought I had tried everything in the supermarket.  Of course, Gunner seems to never eat anything twice, but it was a small win nonetheless.  It is just so hard to watch as he barely could get up, but still met me at the door when I returned from work today.  He is weak, but I got a lick, so I think there's still some fight left in him.  In a strange way, it helps to know that it can get a lot worse before it gets better.  At least others have walked this path before us.  Keep us in your thoughts and thank you again for so many quick responses.
Scott

[Cathy, Bailey and Duke]

It always gets worse before it gets better! We almost lost Duke twice!!!  After he got on the meds, Duke could barely even walk! We had to practically carry him outside!!! Today he was jumping up on my bed giving me kisses and hopping around in the snow!!!! (a year later)Don't give up the faith!!! Sending very positive thought your way!!!!

[Jen]

hi Scott -
   With a disease where no 2 dogs really are alike, what you've described seems to be one of the few "normal" trends we see.  This is the worst part.  For some it lasts a month or more, some it's maybe a week or so, but you've received the best advice already.
   Bronchodilators, I used them.  Pain pills, mucinex, fans, rides in the truck, anything to keep her breathing.  Force-feeding, ensure plus, anything I could get her to eat.
   It's heart-breaking, and I suppose it's about a 50/50 shot at this point, depending on the infection and the medicine. Once they get through it, they almost always get better, but there's never a guarantee.  We've also seen that a full 6 months of treatment is advised.

   Actually here 2 years later, I've just gone through almost the same thing with my mom. She's been hospitalized since Aug. 19th with a fungal pneumonia (among other things), after multiple misdiangoses and wrong medications.  These infections act pretty much the same in humans.  She's almost recovered, but it's been tough, and she was sick for a very long time.

   You've come to the right place.  We have people here who are experienced with just about any kind of blasto involvement, and they are all willing to help as best they can.

jen

   

[evayola]

Hi Scott & Gunner,

Sorry that Gunner has been dealt this awful hand of blasto. Like the others have said Gunner will get worse before he gets better. When Marge was first diagnosed I too was on here just like you asking for help and advice. Wilson3 said almost the exact same things to me as she did to you and although it sounds crazy laying on the floor with your dog talking to him, it worked for me. I would read to Marge and just cuddle her and talk to her. I know that my voice and calm manner helped keep her going. Positivity can go a super long way! I had to force feed Marge and it is most definitely not a good feeling for the dog or the owner. We let her eat absolutely anything she would put in her mouth. It sounds like you have tried a lot. She ate steak, burgers, chicken, pizza, liversausage, salami, and much more. We wanted to make sure she was getting protein so we were trying a lot of different meats. There is also a paste called nutrical and it is a very high calorie paste that you can just smear in the mouth and get some sort of calories in them. Make sure you are keeping gunner well hydrated too. We fed Marge pedialyte popsicles and ice cubes and gave her iv fluids at home. She was sooooo dehydrated. A fan did seem to help as well. We kept our house nice and cold so it made Marges breathing much easier. She didnt want to ever get up and we had to carry her outside sometimes.

You will find that you can come on here and ask any question possible and there will be many people who are happy to help. Blasto is a rough road but once you and Gunner make it through it you will see a whole new appreciation for you beloved pet.

Eva

[Jen]

I forgot -
   Following this advice usually results in very spoiled dogs.  I don't think anyone minds, tho.

[Kash-]

I had a skinny 50# English pointer before blasto, and during the worst of it, he was down to 35# or 38#.  He didn't eat much before, so during the blasto treatment it was even worse.  During the tough times, he just wouldn't eat unless I "ordered" him to with the mean master voice.  I'm not particularly proud of being a bully, but at my wits end I resorted to it.  During his recovery, my wife would even warn him, "I"ll tell daddy you're not eating!" and he would hang dog his head and take a few bites.  Like we were torturing him.

I'm not saying this is the best method, but my dog was more motivated by a scowl and my hands on my hips than by fillet mignon or cookies.  Don't get me wrong, we babied him and coddled him like the worst spoiled pooch there ever was, but he was such a skinny dog to start, he just couldn't be motivated by food.

I had the benefit of having a vet that really knew her stuff and knew all about blasto to start with.  She recognized it right from the start.  For this we were very lucky, and likely didn't face as bad of times as everyone else here did.

I'm not sure just what I'm saying except that you can beg and plead and cajole and order your dog to eat too, besides tempting with treats.  For some dogs, like mine, the human relationship is and pleasing the master is a  stronger motivation than tempting treats.  Just know too that our canine friend's capability to recover is greater than we think, it's even greater than our compassion. 

Good luck, let us know how things work out for ya...

[Cathy, Bailey and Duke]

Good job Kash!!! Anything that works! Try EVERYTHING!!!!

[CocoaBean]

Just wondering if you got a definate diagnosis for Gunner?
We too are going through a variety of tests where initially there was a large white area on Cocoa's lower right lung, and 10 days later, it is now larger and invading the left lung.  He has decreased lung function with fluid in his lungs.  He was at the hospital yesterday and they gathered fluid from his lungs to test for Blastomycosis with negative results.  The slides will be sent to the pathologist for review.
Cocoa has all the same symptoms: cough, breathing difficulty, but no fever.  He now has a lesion on his paw, which may or may not be related.
The vet believes its Cancer but also is unable to locate any other areas where it matasticized from.
Any eye symptoms?

[Kash-]

Cocobean,

do you and your vet know about the MiraVista antigen urine test?

Look around the forum, or do a google on that if you haven't already.

[kincraft]

Everyone-
Thanks again for all the support.  Gunner is still not eating, and we are force feeding both ensure and all sorts of other food that can be pureed in a food processor.  We are also beginning colostrum and nutrical.  We are pulling out all the stops.  He still greets me at the door, but for the life of me I can't figure out how he can even stand up.  He is so emaciated I can not comprehend that he has any energy.  He is still rattling in the lungs, but it is not as "tight" and full of fluid as it once was.  If only he would eat.  We are in week 3 and the anorexia from the itraconazole seems full blown.  He drools over food, but can't bring himself to eat it.  Interesting that he doesn't fight the turkey baster feedings and actually seems to like getting the food.  I've never seen anything like it.  I hope we are just in the lowest valley and we will begin the climb upward soon.  As for the diagnosis, we have yet to receive a positive result for blasto or histo, though 5 vets now agree that everything possible has been ruled out otherwise.  He is running a low grade fever.  He also had a full body ultrasound of every organ and biopsies of every possible part of his body.  The dog oncologist can not find a cancer anywhere (in response to CocoaBean).  It is debatable, but his right eye does seem a little more droopy and bloodshot than normal, but no detached retina or blindness thank god.  As a boxer, he always had some droopiness and bloodshot eyes when he had enough rest and food.  We could still send off some other screens and get more definitive tests for blasto/histo, but as the vet is saying - Gunner was declining so rapidly (days) and now is "stabalized" though emaciated after 3 weeks on itraconazole, that there is little doubt what we are fighting, though it went 18 months from first dry cough through multiple mis-diagnoses.  I have updated vets 1 and 2 we saw who were shocked at the situation (after prescribing antibiotics for "bronchitis" and telling us not to worry).  Interestingly, the second vet who had only heard of blasto in vet school and never had seen a case said that she had seen 2 other dogs locally in the last 3 months with the same symptoms and antibiotics did not help those dogs either.  She is going to contact the owners to follow up.  Keep us in your thoughts...
Scott