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[LabDad]

Hi all,

We adopted our lab 3 months ago from a rescue organization in Louisiana. He is 3 years old and active and we thought healthy (having been treated for heartworm while in the shelter before we got him).  Within a day of adopting him we noticed the hacking cough - more like a dry heave like he had to vomit or was choking. He mostly would cough after playing fetch or exerting himself, but sometimes also he would do it while sleeping.  He has limped from time to time over the past months but that has usually been following some hard running or playing. We took him to the vet a few times over the past months and he tested for kennel cough and for heartworm again but that all came out clear. We were thinking our lab had a clean bill of health until we did an x-ray yesterday (which I thought was just for the vet to rule out everything out of an abundance of caution).  The x-rays have show some white spots on the lung area as well as enlarged lymphnodes.  Our dog is still very energetic and has a huge appetite, is not lethargic (but has always been wiped out at night) and shows no lesions or changes in the eyes.  The coughing occurs maybe once a day or every two days. He has lost about 5 pounds over the past week or two despite normal eating.

The vet is ordering a urine test and a tracheal wash.  She said it is a possibility that the white spot on the lungs are calcifications from the heartworm, although she thought Blasto was a possibility given that our lab came from Louisiana, which I understand is a hot spot. 
We are hopeful that we'll get an answer next week and that it will not be Blasto, but it sounds like many of the indications are there.

The question I have is is whether the coughing without the other symptoms indicates that this is still the early stages and hopefully a stage where he would be more responsive to the Intra treatment?  Also, I've read on a couple of google searches that for dogs with pulmonary Blasto that there is only a 50% chance of the dog surviving the first week of treatment as the fungus dies in the lungs potentially causing respiratory distress.  However, taking a look at the case studies on this site seem to indicate a much greater survival rate (eyeballing the case studies it seemed like the survival rate was more in the 85% range).  I wonder if the 50% estimate that I have seen was a statistic from several years ago.

Any thoughts on the above would be greatly appreciated.  Yesterday morning I thought I had an active and healthy lab and had never even heard the term Blastomycosis - three months ago we adopted our dog thinking we'd have him for ten years or so and our kids could grow up with him.  Now, I'm not certain that he'll be with us in two weeks.

This is pretty shocking and I'd greatly appreciate your input.

Thanks.

LabDad

[Wilson3]

thank goodness you guys are on the ball!  for not hardly having him you sure new the signs that somthing was not rigt. ( sad to say many people do not)
It is totally normal for a dog to get kennel cough in a shelter the amount of stress there and the smell of death to an animal they just know those places "could" mean death and for many it is.
SHelters do not have the money or time to do testing on everything they go with what is "normally" the "norm" with animals the animals are very lucky they treat for heartworm.
It is hard to say where you dog could have gotten it if this is blasto. 3 months to start showing signs could have gotten with you. Wilson had it 6 months at least before signs started to show.
It could be many things.....thank goodness you new to go to the vet and push to really find out what he has.
He is one lucky dog to have found you!!!!VERY LUCKY!
As for surviving it ... many do, I feel more people are trying and with the newer drugs out there they can afford it better. They just do not give up peopel feel different about pets then they use to and they really try harder.
 
pet health pharmacy is a gret place to get the meds for a great price!!!!

Wilsons treatment with everything costed around $8000 and treatment was for 8 months for him
some are alot less some even more

He made through the heartworm treatment he can beat this also what ever it ends up being!
I need to warn you fighting blasto is not easy lots of ups and downs well worth it though!
my vet asked me before we started treatment "are you in it for the LOOOONG haul?"
And it is but well worth ever min an dpennt spent
they do make it lots of them do it sounds like "if" this is it you cought it earily
(on the up side the vets are gettting better at look for it,thinking maybe it is it)

please keep us update and bless you for adopting
wilson3

[LabDad]

Thanks Wilson 3,

It is comforting to hear that your dog had it for 6 months and still survived.  Our lab had the cough from the moment we got him so I suspect he had the cough for a couple months before that, perhaps picking it up when he was recovering from heartworm.


We are bracing ourselves to hear the results this week.  I hope this is a case of me finding too much info on the internet and attaching it to our dog erroneously, but it does not seem like it to me.

If it is Blasto, we're prepared to undergo the treatment for our dog (it is amazing how much he has become family in just 3 months).  If it turns out that he is in the unlucky percentage that does not make it, then we'll try to take comfort in the fact that we gave him the best life he could have for the last months of his life and that he knew he was loved (rather than being a stray as they found him or deteriorating in a shelter).  If it turns out that we ended up unknowingly being a hospice for him then I suppose we can take comfort in that fact.  He is a strong and energetic dog that has already been through so much and has proven himself to be a fighter and has beat odds in the past, so we're very optimistic about his condition.

This is certainly not something we bargained for when we decided to get a family dog though.

Many thanks again.

Labdad.

[Wilson3]

the shelter most likely just thought kennel cough
the amount of dogs/puppies that come into a shelter everyday is very overwhelming.
( I did aussie rescue for many yrs wilson is a past foster ,failed foster that is )
What is his name??
He is soooooooo very lucky to have your family! I cannot say that enough.The love you will give will be return 1000x's over
Your family will  learn a lot form this
 in a way I hope it is blasto so the wondering is over on what he has,that is 1/2 the battle,knowing
He is a young dog and has made leaps and bounds like crazy and this is just one more hurtle
and well worth it! the rewards you will get back are like nothing else

so they did do a blasto test,you are waitting for results?
I pray they come fast!
remember pet health pharmacy has great prices for meds I woudl think any meds they would also.
I was paying $175 a month for wilson after Jen found this place it was $80.40 for 2 months what a savings
best of luck!
wilson3

[Kash-]

The question I have is is whether the coughing without the other symptoms indicates that this is still the early stages and hopefully a stage where he would be more responsive to the Intra treatment?  Also, I've read on a couple of google searches that for dogs with pulmonary Blasto that there is only a 50% chance of the dog surviving the first week of treatment as the fungus dies in the lungs potentially causing respiratory distress.

You may have read about a 50% mortality rate somewhere, I can't actually dispute that number, but, and it's a great big but...  does your dog have a high fever?  Normally, (and if we've learned anything, there isn't anything normal or typical about blasto) but normally, there is lethargy, loss of appetite and a high fever.

It sounds like your vet is on the ball and testing to rule out blasto.  That's good medicine.

It is true that often dogs seem to get worse during the first few weeks of treatment, the suspected cause is just as you suggest.  But I'd argue that this is contributory to the mortality rate.  The mortality rate goes up as untreated and undiagnosed time goes by.  It's more of a situation like, "the good news is we know what's wrong with fido, the bad news is, it's too late." 

I'm not a vet, nor am I remotely qualified to make the following judgment, especially without seeing any of your xrays, but here goes...  you said there are "spots", that might be this or that.  My dog (who survived blasto, and the treatment) had a full field snow storm pattern on his xrays by the time we got him on antifungals.  So I gotta think that a few spots of blasto is a much earlier Dx.  Good for you.  Just keep the caveat in mind that there's nothing typical about blasto.

Come back and tell us what's going on.  But I gotta think that you're going to have a good diagnosis.  Even if it does come back blasto, it sounds like your vet caught it early.  That's the best news you can get with a positive blasto Dx.

Good luck!

 

[LabDad]

Thanks very much Wilson3 and Kash,

I do appreciate your comments.  His name is Bear and he is a fantastic dog. We really could not be any happier with him - we had some reservations before adopting a previously stray, site-unseen, that had never lived in a house but we got invested in his story.  Turns out he is really an amazing and very smart who can't get enough of us.  Wilson, I commend you on your rescue work in the past - to think that Bear had 6 months ago been in a high kill shelter is still hard to beleive.  We took a urine sample this weekend and will drop it off this morning for the Mira Vista test, which I understand is 100% conclusive (whereas the tracheal wash covers more ailments but is not as accurate).  Do you know how long it takes to get results thought - I don't want to wait 2 weeks for results when maybe the tracheal wash would give results faster?

Kash, I hope that you are right and that we may have discovered this, if it is in fact Blasto, in the early stages.  Reading the various case studies and other materials seems to give me the impression that sometimes a cough is involved and sometimes not.  His symptoms/factors at this point are:

1.  Hacking/gagging cough since we adopted him 3 months ago.  Sometimes it goes for several days without a cough.  Usually aggrevated by playing fetch.
2.  Lately a very running nose.
3.  LUng x-ray shows 4 or 5 spots - i didn't mention it before, but there seems to be a spider web kind of pattern too but the vet was not too sure if this was an abnormality or just a bad picture, as she said the quality of the x-ray was not great.
4.  We have not taken his temp, but at least to touch he does not seem warm.
5.  Yesterday, i noticed a large solid rock-like lump at the base of his penis, about the size of a golf ball.  He has been neutered so I didn't know what this was, and then it went away.
6.  Heavy breathing after short bursts of exercise.  After 2 or 3 throws of the ball he is breathing heavy/panting.
7.  Loss of 5 pounds over the past week or so.

On the other hand:

1.  He still has a very strong appetite.  Were starting to feed him more to get his weight back up in case it is blasto and he needs to go through the treatment.
2.  He is still energetic and loves to play.  When he is not playing he does rest and at night is wiped out (which has been the case since adopting - is this typical?) but i think this is not lethargy.
3.  He is a very up and happy dog in general and still is. 

We're going to submit the urine sample today so hopefully in a day or two we'll know for sure.  The potential problem is that because we've only had him for 3 months we don't know how long he has had this cough for.  In the months before adoption he was recovering from heartworm.  This dog has overcome a lot of odds between getting rescued as a stray and being rescued from a high kill shelter and then surviving heartworm, so I would think/hope that his fighting spirit and zest for life will make a difference in getting through whatever this is.

Will keep you posted.

Thanks again.

[LabDad]

Hi,

I forgot to mention that Bear also has been sort of sneezing and sniffing out more frequently lately.

He does not have any open sores nor does he show any discoloration or other problems in the eyes, and he is not limping.  He does seem to be stretching a bit more lately.

Many thanks again.

[Kash-]

Couple comments on your bullet points;

4; I suppose there are cases when there is no fever, but I'm thinking that a high fever is a usual symptom.  It's my opinion that you'd know if he were hot, even without a thermometer.

5; Normal.  neutered or not, that's just a k9 boner.   

6 and especially 7 make me think that you're doing the right thing seeking treatment and ruling out blasto.  But I suppose this could be part of his recovery from HW.

I'll end with an anecdote from my blasto story that closely resembles yours.  Way back when, my vet too was "just doing a test to rule out some bad things".  Of course, I asked what bad things?  I had never heard of blasto either.  I even wrote it down on a business card, so I'd get the spelling right.  My vet told me, because she knew me so well, "Now, don't go home and google that, you'll only scare yourself.  I'm just doing this test to rule it out, OK?"

Of course I ran right home and googled blasto.  Boy did I scare myself too.  Back in 2002, there weren't great sites like this, there wasn't the MV antigen test and boy, was blasto a big unknown boogeyman.  Well, the more I read, and the few days ticked by, the more I realized that this is exactly what was wrong with Knight.  So much so that even before the fungal titer and culture (back then they tried to culture and grow the damn thing to confirm the Dx) we got him on Sporonox and two days later the results came back.

Knighty lived through the blasto and the Itra + ampho-b therapy, although his liver enzyme numbers were always a little wonky after that.

So, you've googled blasto, wound up here and got the pants scared off ya.  For you and Bear's sake, I hope this is a false alarm.  One other question for ya labdad,  Where are you currently located?  I know you got Bear from LA, which is a potential blasto infection area, but I'm wondering if you're currently located in a known hot spot?

[LabDad]

Thanks again Kash.  Your comments are very helpful.  I spoke to the vet this morning and they are going to also do some blood work to test for Hystoplasmosis and Cryptocaucus which she said are similar conditions that are more common with dogs from Louisiana (she said Blasto is not as common, although I read otherwise).  I suppose we'll know soon enough what the diagnosis is and will take it from there.  We are in New England and from what I've read Blasto is not typical up here - the vet said she's never seen the problem up here.  This plus the fact that our dog had the cough from day one when we adopted him make me think he contracted whatever while still in the south.

I certainly hope this ends of being a case of me getting ahead of myself based on some google research.  My young kids love that dog more than anything and it could be pretty tough.  We intentionally adopted a young dog to put off as long as possible the eventual heartbreak of the dog's demise - certainly a 3 to 4 month horizon was not something we ever thought would be a remote possibility.

Will keep you posted.

Thanks again.

[evayola]

Hi. I am super glad that you found this site. These great amazing people here are what helped me pull through Marge's battle.

My #1 question to you... Have you started any antifungal meds for Bear? When Marge was suspected to have blasto- we started treatment IMMEDIATELY! It is MOST important to treat first and wait for results. Not to scare you but waiting days can be fatal. If Bear has made it this long you are so lucky and you dont know how advanced the blasto may be. If I were you, I would call my vet and put Bear on either itraconazole or fluconazole right away. Even if your original rx may be super expensive I would do it.

Marge was presenting signs of blasto for months. I personally believe that she had it nearly 6 months before she was diagnosed. When she finally was diagnosed the doctor that took her chest xray told us that she was not going to live and I nearly had a heart attack and cried and cried. We decided to treat her aggressively with the itra and amp b drip. That was the biggest regret I have during the course of Marge's treatment. If I could do it all over again I would not subject her to that amp b drip. The day following the drip she went blind in one eye. The vet suspects that the blasto was "on the move" and went to her eye. Luckily the eye is still there and she has sight in her other eye.

My words are obviously not to scare you in any way shape or form. I too was terrified when I googled blasto and cried myself to sleep many many nights. The biggest thing I can say is to treat now while waiting for the miravista results. STAY POSITIVE!!!

Eva

[LabDad]

Thanks Eva,

That is a good suggestion and I'll run it by the vet tomorrow.  The problem right now is that it seems like we are the only ones that seem to be treating this as an urgent matter.  Our primary vet and the radiologist he uses got the results last friday and both were leaving for vacation and we were basically told to call them next week after they returned, so we went to a second vet in the meantime who is handling the urine and blood tests (and is being very responsive).  I'll suggest the Intra to her tomorrow but you get this feeling when you are calling them that you are overreacting and what is the big rush - probably since Blasto and the other similar fungal diseases are not that common up here.  I did some checking and it turns out that the two other diseases they are going to check for are all treated with the same meds as Blasto - Would you happen to know if there is any downside to starting the Intra or other meds if the dog turns out NOT to have the disease?  If its just a money issue then it is a no brainer, but I'm not sure whether we could cause problems by the meds unnecessarily if it turns out Bear does not have Blasto.

Many thanks again. 

p.s.  we've also noticed that Bear is very restless at night lately.  last night he was up and walking around and not sleeping on his bed as he usually does.  ever see this symptom?

[Jen]

Hi Labdad, and welcome -
   Your statement regarding the way you seemed to be the only ones treating the symptoms as urgent is pretty frustrating.  We've tried very hard to stress a sense of urgency on the part of veterinarians, but it's sometimes an uphill battle. 
   Blasto can move extremely quickly.  Delays in diagnostics are common, but most of us feel that treatment should begin even before a positive diagnosis is made. 
   There's not much harm in starting antifungal treatment if it turns out to be something else.  There IS a grave risk to letting it go untreated for even a few days.  Personally, I think a few days is way too long.  Even though they said we caught Dirtbike "early", she almost didn't make it through the first week or so of treatment. 
   She had the same symptoms as your Bear, but also had a nickel-sized lesion on her back.  Luckily, the lesion made it easy for us to get an immediate diagnosis. It's hard to gauge what might be called early.
   If possible, I'd see if the vet can prescribe a few doses of Itra from a pharmacy, and have them call a compounder or pet pharmacy to get the rest shipped to you as soon as possible.  Antifungals can be very expensive through a retail (human) pharmacy, and they don't always make the right size dose for your dog.  Wilson3 and I both used Pet Health Pharmacy with great results. 

   Glad you found us - this is a great place for information.  Ask lots of questions, learn as much as you can.  There's probably someone here who has been through just about any situation that blasto can throw at you, and most are survivors.
   When blasto is a possibility, hoping for the best is great, but preparing for the worst can save Bear's life.

Good Luck-
jen
   
   
   

[Wilson3]

Oh I do prayer you find out soon...
Labdad....be PUSHY! not mean but PUSH the fact that you are very concerned and that you are paying the bill call all the time as much as you can to get answers
all to many times vets do what you have mentioned
thank god you went to another vet!
It took me demanding wilsons normal vet to get anywhere dummy me (thinking they know all) took  1 month to do so,mean while Wilson almost did die his vet was shocked to see he was still standing when he finailly saw him I know different know (he even asked why I didn't demand him sooner,stupid on my part,but that will never happen again) and I love the vet we have the rest of the clinic know that he is the only one my dogs see and yes they get the red carpet these days but my boys have had a few oops along the way I think I earned the rest of the clinics respect
they get use to most pet owns around here that just really would not go that extra mile
SO YES CALL THEM ALL THE TIME EVERYDAY 10 X'S A DAY IF YOU MUST TO GET AN ANSWER.
i WILL BE PRAYING FOR YOUR FAMILY
WILSON3

[evayola]

I am not sure that his restlestness is a symptom but the result of his discomfort if he is having a hard time breathing. Marge would be very restless at night and we kept the house VERY cool for her so it was easier for her to breathe. I am very concerned that your vet doesnt see this as being urgent. Blasto is very urgent. The lives lost on this board are a testament to that. I too would INSIST on medications immediately. I would not wait until tomorrow but if necessary call in the am and insist that you get meds. Itraconazole or fluconazole are the most common. Please keep us posted and ask if you have any questions. Many of us are on here at bizarre hours so you can almost bet one of us will respond. Keep Bear very hydrated- it is most important that you keep him hydrated and well fed. His body needs it.

Eva

[LabDad]

Many thanks Jen, Wilson 3 and Eva,

This is all very helpful - particularly in light of the fact that three days ago I never even heard of this disease.  I will be calling the interim vet in the morning to suggest some Intra while we wait for lab results.  It really does feel like it is up to you to be vigilant and to be a nudge to the vet - our pet is only one of several hundred files and it just doesn't seem to be an urgent matter .(this morning I was told that the radiologist should be coming to pick up the x-rays today and they'd call me with info; this afternoon I was told my someone else that she should be able to look at the x-rays by friday). [very long rant just typed and then deleted, but you know where i'm coming from]
It was really left up to chance in the first place that we brought bear in for the x-ray when we did, as it was only suggested that we do the x-ray at some point for something unrelated to a fungus infection. 

I would really appreciate you guys letting me know how tough the Itra treatment is on the dog and what should be expected.  I think it is essentially the fungus dies in the lungs and that puts great stress on the dog, similarly to what happens with heartworm treatment. 

Many thanks again everyone.  I guess we'll know soon enough what the deal is.

Labdad.