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Author Topic: What should KoKo be eating?  (Read 1505 times)

KoKo

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What should KoKo be eating?
« on: October 27, 2008, 01:58:33 AM »

I have been giving her large meals - she eats Nutro Natural Choice food.  With a Yogurt.

I have been giving her her meds with a pretty large qty of Havarti Cheese.

I was just reading on this forum to minimize fat and stay away from sugars.  I am now worried about the yogurt.

Also how much cheese should the dog get with the itra?  I understand some fat with the medicine is important.  So confusing :(
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gunner

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Re: What should KoKo be eating?
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2008, 02:54:07 AM »

Sounds to me like you have been doing it just right.  Is the yogurt flavored or plain?  If you have been using a sweetened, flavored yogurt, you might want to switch to plain.  Yeast feeds off of sugar, BUT the cultures in yogurt fight yeast also.  I don't know how big Koko is, but at about a teaspoon of fat per 100mg would be pleanty.  Too much fat and your baby will get the squirts.  Other than switching the yogurt, I think you are doing fabulously well.   :D
Joyce
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evayola

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Re: What should KoKo be eating?
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2008, 10:36:46 AM »

It sounds good to me... I am happy to hear that Koko is actually eating and you arent force feeding like so many of us did. You are doing a great job!

Eva
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mhitesman

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Re: What should KoKo be eating?
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2008, 12:22:12 PM »

Animal fat is not any better for Koko's arteries than it is for yours.  Same with sugars.  A little fat with the itra is a good thing.  Comet got two pieces of deli-thin sliced pure beef bologna with his each morning.  That was probably too much fat, but it's what I did.  When I give him yogurt, it is plain yogurt although I will often give him the least teasponsful if I am having flavored yogurt.  Frankly, he kind of shares a little bit of whatever I am having as long as it is somewhat healthy for him.

I know we have talked about kibble.  I have pretty strong feelings on dog food simply because of my personal experience with a couple brands.  I started feeding what the breeder recommended (can't remember what it was now, but it could only be purchased 40 miles away at high end pet stores, and in 5# bags ...did not know to try the internet at that time, but honestly I did not believe dog food could really be BAD as long you bought the more expensive brand...).  Comet has been plagued with eye infections, ear infections, hot spots, dull coat, and itching for most of his life.  I had fed Nature's Choice, Nutro, Eukanuba, and Purina PRO Plan.  They all stunk, his feces were extremely foul smelling and large, his coat was dry and brittle, and he had gas a lot.  Not having other experience, I did not know this was not normal.  He also had constant ear and eye infections.

Then came the "food scare" and I started reading the labels.  The food I had been feeding, like just about all the mass marketed brands, was eventually on the list, and I cut open (so it could not be stolen and fed to other dogs) and threw in the trash 3 40# bags of PRO Plan which, like all those foods above, was full of grain including wheat gluten.  Glutens and grains are not good for dogs.  They cannot be digested by the animal, so they pass through resulting in loose, big, foul smelling feces.  The dog food companies put the grains in as fillers but also to be able to print higher PROTEIN numbers on the labels.  But, of course, protein that is not digestible is of no benefit to the dog, so those numbers are very misleading to say the least.  Chinese gluten was found to be the culprit in the food scare, but it is important to remember that the melamine found in the Chinese gluten was not determined to be accidental contamination.  The Chinese have long been putting melamine into their human grade wheat gluten -- it tests as higher protein  which translates into more $$$.  It's my guess that the Chinese manufacturer cut costs a little too much this time by putting so much melamine in the gluten that it began killing dogs (kidney failure)...and they were caught.  Hoardes of companies quit glutens from China.  Other companies developed foods without glutens.  Some developed food without grains at all.  Some already had foods that never had any of the above.  I think this event changed the pet food industry -- at least for awhile.

I switched to Canidae -- a relatively inexpensive all natural kibble.  I also began giving supplements at that time (Missing Link Plus).  The change in the coats, teeth and general health of my dogs was astounding to me.  Comet was diagosed with blasto a couple weeks after I began feeding Canidae, but his symptoms began before then as he was misdiagnosed for awhile.  After a year or so, though, the company began outsourcing to Diamond Foods, changed the formula, and I began to notice the dogs did not like the food, vomited some, and had lots of gas.  When I checked my retriever forum online, I saw that others had the same complaints.  I then switched to Orijen -- a Canadian company of very high quality natural ingredients.  Orijen is great food, but my Comet is not retrieving in competitions anymore, and now that River is in rehab for knee surgery, his career is done too...so they just don't need 47% all natural protein.   So, 8 months ago I switched them to Taste of the Wild.  They really like this food (which I always supplement with a handful of chopped cooked chicken or beef), and they are doing really well.  The rehab tech where River is living (Raleigh) is now feeding his dogs with it and recommending it.  I supplement with salmon oil and a Cosequin multi vitamin. 

This is WAY more than you asked, but ... I hope you have had time to look at the ingredient label from the Nutro kibble you are feeding.  Those grains and glutens provide no nutritional benefit,  One can argue that they provide some benefit as fibre, which is what produces the large stinky stool, but a dog's short digestive tract is not designed to digest grains.  The worst thing about grains in your dog's diet, though, is that grains are the most likely cause of allergies in dogs.  This was certainly the case for my Comet -- who has not had one ear infection, eye infection, hot spot, or excessive itchiness since getting off a diet that included grain.  His allergies were always treated by steroids...ear infections by antibiotics.  He was on one or both most of his life.  That had to be awful for his immune system, and I honestly believe it made him more susceptible to blasto when it crossed his path.

My .02
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KoKo

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Re: What should KoKo be eating?
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2008, 02:39:31 PM »

I didn't have the bag.  But I found this:
http://www.nutroproducts.com/ncdry-lbwm.shtml

Will be looking for Taste of the Wild tomorrow.  Is it much more expensive (doesn't matter that much anyway)?
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gunner

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Re: What should KoKo be eating?
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2008, 03:34:25 PM »

You can always do like me and research, research, research, then pick a diet plan for your dog.  Hunt far and wide for all the best quallity organic ingredients you need (Hard to find anything organic in this part of Texas), then spend hours measuring and weighing like a scientist, cooking, blending freezing, shaping and baking wet dog food, kibble and cookies.  When ever I am in doggie nutritionist mode, my husband comes in sniffs and says, "Man!  It smells good in here!  You must be cooking dogfood." 

It is working really well, it has bought Gunner several more months than anyone ever thought she would make, but it is a tramendous amount of work.  If *I* had a choice, I would definitely go with the expensive dog food, but this also gives you another option to provide the best nutrition possible for your dog  ;D  Happy cooking! 

(I have to do it because they don't make any kind of "kidney failure" dog food that Gunner will eat.) 
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gunner

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Re: What should KoKo be eating?
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2008, 03:44:36 PM »

I also wanted to make a comment about this line "Animal fat is not any better for Koko's arteries than it is for yours." from mhitesman

That said, temporarily upping the fat intake while on Itraconazole to make it more effective is important, and I don't think it will cause long term problems.  Also, my aunt had a dog that she loved dearly and got the butcher to blend a special blend for her dog.  She was worried about the dog's health and weight and all and had the butcher prepare it very lean.  Her dog developed a terrible itchy, dry, flakey skin condition that no ammount of shampoos and various treatments by the vet did no good to cure.  The vet then got into the dog's diet.  He told my aunt that the dog's food was too lean and to have more fat added.  (I wish I could remember the percentage he recommended.)  But when she upped the fat content in the dog's food, the dry, itchy skin went away.

I also noticed it with Gunner.  She has always had kind of dry, flakey skin.  I always just put it down to her demodex.  However, after she was on Itraconazole and I gave her a teaspoon of butter with each pill, I noticed a change in her coat.  It made it more glossy and not NEARLY so flakey.  Her skin just felt better.  Maybe not animal fat, but they do need some fat in their diet for sure. 

just thought I would add my two cents as well.
Joyce
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Harleys Mom

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Re: What should KoKo be eating?
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2008, 03:47:36 PM »

I'm not a huge label reader & never been overly impressed with the fancy foods, so my dogs have all been on Pedigree & all but 1 lived to be 14-16 years old. The one that didn't had a very nasty cancer when I adopted her. My only suggestion is avoid stuff with lots of colorful dyes. I groomed dogs for several years & you'd be surprised at how many dogs had skin disorders that cleared up when the owners switched to food without dyes. If KoKo's eating her regular food with a little fat & yogurt added, that might be the way to go. If you do plan to switch foods, it's usually better to ease her into it, like mix 50% old 50% new for a few days, then go to 25%, 75% for a while then 100% new. Even well dogs can get stomach upset by a sudden switch in foods.

Keep us updated on how things are going!
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paintubturner

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Re: What should KoKo be eating?
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2008, 03:54:36 PM »

I also did alot of research on dog food before I switched my dogs over to Nutro Ultra Holistic Weight Management.  They had been on Nutro Ultra Holistic for approx a year now and recently switched to weight management.  My blasto dog had several ear infections over the years and itched alot--has stomach issues--bad gas-- until I switched him to Nutro Ultra.  My puppy is on Nutro Ultra Puppy and I get compliments on her appearance at dog obedience class every week--her weight and muscle tone is perfect and her coat is super shiny--and no more gas and dull coat.  No one can tell you what dogfood to buy--everyone can recommend or offer their opinion but you as the dog owner have to do what fits yours and the dogs needs as well as what the pocket book can afford.  Top of the line dogfoods also come with a top of the line price tag.  We all want to do the best we can for our pets but we also have to deal with the poor economy and lack of money.  To be completely honest, I have recently been dealing with the fact I will be getting a 26% pay cut at my place of employment at the first of the year so I have recently begun the search for a new dog food as I will no longer be able to afford the Nutro come january.  I have also been researching new grain for my horses as I will not be able to afford their high dollar grain anymore either.  My animals will not go without medical treatment or anything like that but in order to be able to afford medical care/farrier/etc i have to make some feed changes as well as several other changes.            
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Wilson3

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Re: What should KoKo be eating?
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2008, 05:53:12 PM »

wilson was feed canidae also with raw meat from the butcher and raw vegs and fruit the kibble was mixed in i also would use foods like eagle pack and natures varity and other sthat where more priciy after a while i started using foods that do not contain grains i stopped canidae completly because diamond foods now owns it and diamond foods get recalled a lot
wellness core and evo are my favorites but taste of thewild and one other from canida i really like it is very hard to really knwo what to feed i do know their is a different in foods you can tell just buy looking at dogs cats or what ever pet

i a lot of peopel think the raw diet isnt good but if done right it is a great way to feed but it does take a lot of time to fix and to make sur ethey get all the right stuff
like tripe it is great for pur pets smells like crap but has a ton of great things in it for them and is good for a sick animal but should be feed in small amounts if they are not use to it

my guys get raw bee pallon nature calories and helps with the iummne system and they liek it  wilson's fat calories came from natural types of food we didnt add any fat to his diet , but then maybe if we did he would have been off meds sooner i will never know they say feed with fat i just cannot give fat to my dogs so the most he got was maybe soem peanut butter but that to was fromthe health store and no salt add or anything add to it i am lucky cause i live close to an animal health store and a  people one
you are doing great with what ever you are doing an that is what counts
what is best for one dog might not be the best for another
wilson3
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mhitesman

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Re: What should KoKo be eating?
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2008, 06:50:27 PM »

Good comments - all.  I agree that all dogs need SOME fat (just like humans do).  My own feeling is that since my dogs get homemade treats and meat, they get enough without having much extra in their kibble.  Besides, it's the saturated fats that are so bad for our (and their) arteries ...in big doses.  Some folks I know feed their dogs the meat scraps that they won't eat ...like poultry skins and beef fat... those are really what I was referring to as bad for my dogs....being no better for them than they are for us.

I don't feed my dog a food if I don't know what the ingredients are and approve of them.  And I feed no grains as both seem to have far fewer problems as a result of no grains.

And I also strongly agree that there are a number of great foods -- and that the owner has the ultimate responsibility to make this decision.

Having said that, to answer your question, I buy Taste of the Wild online at www.heartypet.com.  I usually wait for a free or 50% off shipping offer.  They have a number of really great products on their website, and their shipping is fast.  A 30# bag of kibble is $42 I think.  Shipping is $10 per bag at regular rates, but like I said, I usually wait for a "deal" on that.  I can also buy it at a pet store 30 miles away, but it ends up costing much more for me there because of the driving -- and it is $50/bag there.  Orijen ran about $60/bag (after shipping) for a 40# bag from the same website. 

Good luck with your decisions.  The people on this board care for their animals very much, and I think you can safely use any advice offered here as a starting point toward making the best decision for you and Koko.
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KoKo

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Re: What should KoKo be eating?
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2008, 11:07:03 PM »

I am leaning towards Orijen and i'll tell you what when you consider the fact that you feed less it is not much more expensive than the crap i am feeding... matter of a fact it might be cheaper!

Thanks for making me aware? 

Any reason not to go with orijen.  I like it because its high quality, gets good reviews, easy to find here, and a canadian company. 
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evayola

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Re: What should KoKo be eating?
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2008, 10:27:15 AM »

Homer and Marge are both on the Orijen fish. They love it! Their breath smells like dead fish but I will take it considering they look so good! I do see that we are feeding less. Before they were eating 6 cups each daily and now we are at 5 cups each. Because it is high protein, they can eat less. Good decision I think Koko will love it

Eva
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mhitesman

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Re: What should KoKo be eating?
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2008, 07:39:47 PM »

Orijen is great food.  I fed Orijen before switching to Taste of the Wild two months ago (or so).  I switched because blasto killed Comet's retrieving career, and we are just not training anymore, so he is not runnin 5 or 6 miles a day for conditioning anymore...Orijen has too much protein for him with his current level of exercise.

From the pictures on your blog, it is obvious that Koko gets lots of exercise, and you have mentioned roading her (you might not have used that term) so it is a good choice for you.  My Comet and River do like the taste of taste of the wild better than Orijen, but that is individual.  It's also still pretty new to them ...
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Judy

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Re: What should KoKo be eating?
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2008, 11:26:19 PM »

I love everyone's comments here on foods - what a great discussion. I found that by going to raw food, Francie did much better, and I think it helped her immune system - I think each dog is a different case though. However, I think the best fat can come from fish oil - and I use that with her Stella and Chewey's raw frozen food from Wisconsin i.e.after she eats when I give her itra I give her the equivalent in fish caps for her weight. And the itra and little fish oil caps are coated with cream cheese - coats easily.  I am interested in feedback - any one else doing Stella and Chewey or have done it in the past? Thoughts? I also add pumpkin to it and for the first two months probiotics with her amount of antibiotics prior to diagnosis and every now and then now.  Probiotics can crowd out the unhealthy gut flora. 
Judy (with Francie sleeping at my side and a picture to come someday, I promise)
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