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[gunner]

Hi again,

Gunner has been on treatment for 5 weeks now.  Her progress, though somewhat steady has been agonizingly slow, it seems, I am sure everyone on this board knows what I mean. 

Yesterday, we switched from Sporanox to generic Itracortazol as the pharmasist assured me that they are *exactly* the same drug withthe only difference being the packaging and the price.  Last night, 4 hours after I gave Gunner the Itracorazol, she had a major ceisure.  Are seizures common?  I have only read that they happen in advanced cases and usually prior to death.  I know that Gunner's case was really advanced but she hadn't had any seizures yet.  Has anyone else had seizures durring treatment?  Should I be hitting the pannic button? 

I hate this disease.  When ever I figure that the road is going to smooth out for a while, something ugly pops up again and gives me a corrinary!  Of course Gunner can never do something like this on a Monday, no, it has to be a Friday going into a weekend. 

Anyway, thank you again so much for your tramendous support.
Joyce 

[evayola]

Honestly, I would be hitting the panic button. I would contact your vet immediately and have them check her over. I was also told that generic and brand name are the same. Joyce, I am so sorry and we do all know what you are going through. Like I said though, I would contact your vet right away!

[Jen]

Hi Joyce;
   I'm hoping Gunner is stable by now, but I'd definitely ask the vet.  Remember that with the Blasto (esp. disseminated) your dog's different internal systems can be a trainwreck of different problems combined. 
   We used generic Itra with NO problems.  Each dog will be different in their recovery depending on their involvement, but yes, check w/ your vet asap.
Hoping for good news-
jen

[gunner]

Hi,

I must confess that I have NO confidence in my vet, or any of the vets around here as none of them have any back ground with Blasto.  That said, I did call her this morning and asked her about Gunner's seizure and she said that it was part and parcel of blasto and that because Gunner's case was so advanced, that she was suprised that Gunner had not had seizures before this.  She just told me to keep an eye on Gunner and let her know if Gunner had any more.  She didn't seem to know if that indicated the medication was working or not.  She also didn't think that urine tests were a good way of monitoring blasto.  Even though I have not confidence in her, I will still be setting up an appointment with her for early next week, but other than giving her more money, I can't see what good is going to be come of the visit.   

It is so frustrating for me because the newest of us on this forum seems to know way more about this wretched disease than any of the vets around here.   

Thank you again,
Joyce

[evayola]

Joyce,
Have you asked your vet if they have any collegues at a university that may know more about blasto? The reason that I ask this is because my vet didnt know the whole spectrum of blasto so she consulted with somebody else that specializes in blasto only and they discussed Marge's treatment plan. I think it is a shame that just because you arent in a blasto area, you are being given these answers. I will call my vet on Monday and see if she has the number of the vet she was consulting with. Maybe you can call her yourself or ask your vet to call her. I can't guarantee she will give it to me but I will most definitely try for you. I am so sorry for you and Gunner because this is a crazy disease and like you said, the people on this board seem to know a bit more than your vet does. Anything that you need, you know that we are all here for you. I am sure you already are but give Gunner as much emotional support as you can and tell her that she is going to make it and to be a strong girl!
Hugs and St Bernard kisses,
Eva Homer Marge & the rest of the gang!

[gunner]

Thank you so much! 

Wow!  St. Bernard kisses!  I am still towling off!   

I was thinking that I would try calling some of the vets that you all had listed here on Monday to see if I could get some advice or something from them.  Thank you so much for your offer!!! 

My vet had been constulting with a couple of vets in Austin, but their advice was definitely out dated on this disease.  They would know a lot more if they just looked in on this board once in a while! 

It is a bit of a tight rope walk with the vets I have been dealing with.  They all seem to have egos that get in the way.  They seem to feel that their education doesn't allow them to take any suggestions from mere dog owners.  No matter how educated the dog owner has become on the subject.  Gunner is going on 3 years old and I have had her to 6 different vets and not one has been any better than the others other than the emergency vet that I really liked but he doesn't have a regular practice and it costs $125.00 just to walk in the door. 

Anyway, I realize that I rely heavily on you and everyone else on this bord as you all have had the right answers every time, ulike dealling with the "proffessionals", and I won't even go there about the cost!   

Can't thank you enough Eva, Jen, Kirston and every one else!

[luvmyjacks]

Ok Joyce. RELY on the people here.  Don't be shy about checking out links to info, print them off, march them to your vet if need be (most are not written by mere dog owners and many are science based).  Definitely call vets listed by other dog owners here and after telling them how desperate you are arrange for them to speak to your vet on the phone.  Honestly if they are in the business because they truly love and care for animals they will help you.  When I could no longer drag Will to the ICU vet who knew so much (like your $125 to go in the door place) I sent the new x rays to her and she read them at night and sent them back the next day.  My vet was thrilled to get help from someone experienced with Blasto.  Because she cared! 

[evayola]

Joyce,
I sent you a message. My vet was in contact with Texas a&m university for marge's blasto. I gave you the contact info. I dont know how far you are from there but hey might be worth a shot to call. Maybe they can point you in the right direction since your vet doesnt really know! Let us know what happens. How is Gunner doin?
Eva

[mhitesman]

Sporonox is patented.  As such, no other company can make a generic version of it right now.  It is supposedly to keep the price up to cover the cost of research for the original producer.  I think patents run 5 years or something like that.  Then, anyone can make a "generic" version, and the price gets competitive.  Generic drugs are exactly the same as the drug that was patented -- and the FDA regulates both.  Compounded drugs, like the itra version sold by Roadrunner Pharmacy, for example, are 99.9% the same (I am estimating).  The point is they cannot be EXACTLY the same -- as that would violate the patent the originating company still has on the drug.  What is the difference?   Only the chemists that make it know.  Most importantly, the FDA does not monitor or regulate compounded drugs in any way. 

Comet took Sporonox even though it was horrendously expensive ($600/month or so).  But, he was only on it for four months since he had a weak positive (and now tests negative ...which I will continue checking every couple months).  Franklyl, after all the other bills for the tests and then the surgery to remove his eye, the drugs were the least of it, and we probably would have kept him on it.  But, I would not feel badly about putting him on the compounded drug if we felt the other was just too much.

It is possible that the compounded version is making your dog sick.  You could try another compounded version (there are at least two compounding pharmacies in Arizona) or go back to Sporonox.

Your vet sounds like the first three that Comet saw.  Their ignorance was only exceeded by their arrogance.  And the fact that they destroyed my dog's retrieving competition future and almost killed him makes me burn.

[gunner]

Just to let you know that Sporanox is no longer protected under a patent.  Gunner was on Sporanox for the first month, but I am now using the generic version.  I have not yet used the compounded version so that was not the cause of Gunner's siezure.  The generic version only saves about $100.00 making it still really pricey.

Gunner also lost her eye to blasto.  We fought through months of misdiagnosis and treatments that had us putting something or other into her eye nearly every hour for months.  It was hell not to mention outrageously expensive! 

My vet called today and wants me to bring Gunner in for a check-up.  She doesn't even know how to monitor the disease so I don't know what good a "check-up" with her is going to do.  I think she just wants to buy a new Lexus or something.    

[evayola]

I am really surprised that you both werent using fluconozole because it is supposed to be more effective with eye involved cases of blasto. I am sooooooo glad that we switched Marge from the itra because she was so different when she was on it. Once we switched her to fluconozole she got her appetite back and it really helped with the inflammation with her eye. Luckily it didn't spread to the other eye.

Lexus would be nice! I bet Gunner would love to ride around in one! 

[gunner]

Is the fluconizole as expensive as the Sporanox?

Gunner's eye has been removed do you think that fluconizole would still be and option? 
thanks bunches,
Joyce

[evayola]

Fluconazole should still be an option. I dont know why it wouldnt be. We were on itra and switched because Marges eye was so bad and we figured it couldn't get any worse. I am only paying $43/mo for Marge's fluconozole and she's a much bigger girl! I get it from Wal Mart and it is a tablet form which is much easier on the stomach.  Here are a couple things I found:

Treatment:
Antifungal drugs including ketoconazole, itraconazole, fluconazole, and amphotericin B are the mainstay of treatment. Amphotericin B was one of the first drugs found to be effective in the treatment of blastomycosis. It can cause kidney damage, and requires intravenous administration.

Ketoconazole, itraconazole, and fluconazole belong to the same drug family. Each has been used effectively in the treatment of Blastomycosis. Ketoconazole and itraconazole can cause liver damage, and are available as oral medications. Itraconazole is generally more effective than ketoconazole, but it is also more expensive. Fluconazole is often used for treating infections of the central nervous system and eye because of its better penetration into these tissues.

Fluconazole may be the preferable drug because of the smaller number of capsules and lack of need for timing relative to meals.

[gunner]

Gunner had another major seizure this morning at 5 AM.  It lasted more than a full minute.  It was awful and she was so dissoriented after it was over.  It is 3 hours later and she still doesn't seem quite right.  Does anyone know if seizures indicate central nervous system involvement?  I still can't help thinking that Fluconazole still might be a better option for Gunner.  The hunt for a new vet still continues.  ~sigh~

[Jen]

Joyce, I sent you a message, but before I knew about Gunner's seizure.  I'll see if I can find anything to help out , but have to leave for a bit first.  I feel like I'm leaving my own dog...
Back later-
jen