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[Lolasmom]

Hello everyone.  We're new.  My baby Lola climbed into our cat door and had puppies about 1.5 years ago.  We heard her crying and ended up having to take her to the emergency vet to have the pups.  She was my neighbors dog but spent most of her time over at my house, as I was always the one bringing her home from the busy road  (they just let her run).  I took my neighbors the $600.00 vet bill and told them to give me the money or give me the dog.  They agreed to give her to me for $50.00 more.  Every since then she has been my best girl.  She goes everywhere with me and loves to be pampered (she has Poodle complex).

We are not sure if we are dealing with Blasto or Lung cancer right now.  Still waiting on blood test results which I know are not always accurate.  We started Ketaconzole on Tuesday and then switched to Intra today (had a tough time getting it)  Lolas initial problem was excessive drooling, no cough or lesions.  It took almost 2 months from the time we found a lung spot on the first x ray until she developed any breathing problems the week before XMas.  Another X-Ray and its all over.  No weight lose, or anexexia. I had never heard her cough until yesterday.  But she is breathing very shallow and rapidly. Approx 60 breaths a min.  How long can she possibly keep that up?

I have some questions about this disease and I was wondering if anyone could fill me in on the time line of what to expect during treatment.  Such as the not eating.  Currently, we are 3 days into treatment and she is still eating well.

[benniesmom]

HI. I am going to post a really helpful old post. I will bump it to the top for you. Usually, the appetite takes a few weeks to come back. I bought Ensure Plus, and Bennie would drink that, or sometimes even had to have it through the kind of dropper used with dogs... also would even pour a raw egg into his throat and he would swallow that..... peanut butter on the roof of their mouths works.... it is so important to keep some calories into them as this is an tough fight and they need all the strength they can get.......There are two drugs used for Blasto, one is Fluconazole and one is Itra. very important to watch the blood levels. if there is a low albumin Itra is a scary choice..... as the albumin is about the heart... Fluco is less expensive and seems to work just as well,and it is only problematic if there is underlying kidney disease..... or maybe liver.  Back to the appetite... anything you can get her to eat...... I roasted chickens, fed ground beef, and bought rotisserie chickens. which worked when all else failed....you have found a wonderful resource, but I think a lot of folks maybe are not on so much as many dogs are improved right now......DO look at the "bumped" post. it will be at the top or close to it.....
Barb

ps. what an adorable dog! Love her!

[Sadie123]

Hi Lolasmom,

Don't worry too much about the rapid shallow breathing at 60/min.  It's not too uncomfortable for them - pay attention to it, but don't worry about it.  Know when it changes.  Know when it turns to labored breathing.  Rapid and shallow is not bad for a dog, remember they can pant.  But when you notice it becoming harder to breathe when laying down or sitting up, learn what labored breathing looks like.  My dog ended up not having blasto - but had cancer.  When it got difficult for her to breathe then lying down, I let her go - before the real suffering started.  Just pay attention to the changes and you will start to learn what's comfortable and what is not.  You know your dog more than anyone else does, including your vet.  My dog would breathe approximately 60/min and I knew she wasn't suffering.  It got up to 80-90/min and that made me nervous.  Hang in there and good luck - praying that it's not cancer.

[Sadie123]

OH, after re-reading your post - I have something else to add.  My Sadie never had weight loss - and she did end up having cancer.  She didn't lose her appetite until almost the very end.  Her appetite came back once I started her on prednisone because I wasn't sure what her diagnosis was going to end up being and she started having some labored breathing.  And dog's do not generally get a primary lung cancer.  If cancer is detected in the lungs 99% of the time it has spread from another place in the body.  So once it's found in the lungs it makes it much harder to sucessfully treat.  Best Wishes.  I hate that you are having to start the new year off with a sick pup.  I was hoping there would be no new cases for a while.  We really need a break from the bad news this year.

[Lolasmom]

Ugh...I hate to hear that.  My hope was that since she hadn't lost any wieght it probably wasn't cancer.  The night before last we had a night where she couldn't lay down.  I gave her a prednisone. Lolas has been treated for gastoritis, a cervical problems, an enlarge lymph node in her thorax.....all wrong.  She has been on so much meds for last few months and she hates this medicine.  She has been on steroids for 2 months.  It wasn't until she was put on Dexomethosone for 2 weeks that this thing exploded in her lungs.  Two weeks ago it was just a small spot.  Now its everywhere.  The vet told me to stop the steroids but I read on here that so many people were giving Prednisone. I decided I wasn't gonna see he suffer and gave her one.  It helped.  I fear she may have addisons from all the steroids.   

What is the process with the treatment from Blastos?  I noticed that after her 5th does of Ket. she began to cough.  I had never seen her cough.  Did Sadie cough?  She has swithched to Intra yesterday, had her second dose today.  She seems pretty comfortable today.  But she goes up and down.  Will the Intra start making her cough again?  She is still eating but getting more reluctant.  Is that from the meds?  Does anyone know when the breathing starts to get better if it is Blasto?  Still waiting for blood test results.  If it comes back negative, I guess I will ask for the Mira Vista urine test.

[Lolasmom]

I am so sorry to hear about both of your puppies.  Its not too encouraging.

[Lolasmom]

Lola was initially brought into the vet on 11/8 because she was holding her head low and drooling excessively.  Has anyone heard of this?

[Sadie123]

Sadie started coughing late Oct. this year, around halloween.  7-10 days later she stopped eating her food.  And on the 10th day started turning down people food and treats.  That's when I brought her in 11/10/2010.  Lung x-rays showed lungs cull of either fungus or cancer.  We did the Mira Vista test and started on antifungals the same day.  2 days later Mira Vista came back negative.  Same night Sadie had a very rough night with the breathing.  That's when I started her on prednisone.  Within 12 hrs she was doing much better and started eating again.  The prednisone was masking her symptoms.  Making it appear that she was doing better than she really was.  When I started weaning the steroids, her appetite started decreasing again.  I put her down on 11/22/2010.  12 days after her x-rays.  Lungs were fully involved and I knew she would start some real suffering soon. 

The prednisone increases their appetite as well as their thirst.  Once I started her on the prednisone she ate like a hog that was starving.  Some of the antifungals decrease the appetite.  Sadie's had already stopped eating some -  before we started the antifungals.  The cough was a dry one, and didn't concern me much.  When she stopped eating, I knew something was wrong.  Sadie was on fluconazole.  Coughing was 2 weeks before the initial vet visit.  And yes, coughing was a symptom of her cancer.  You can read my story by clicking on my name and it will pull up my posts, or just go to the threads about Sadie.  The story is played out there.  Sadie had Hemangiosarcoma.  A type of cancer that invades organs that are richly supplied by blood vessels.  I don't know where it started at, but it ended up in the lungs and that's when her symptoms started showing up.  Her blood work showed anemia and low platelets - highly suspicious of cancer. 

My best personal advice to you is to go ahead with the Mira Vista Urine test and have it overnighted to them.  you can have the results back in 48 hrs.  It sounds to me like Lola is having a rough time and you need to find out fast.  If it's blasto then you can fight like hell.  If it is negative and turns out to be cancer, then you can save her some suffering.  I personally would keep my dog on a low dose of prednisone until the results came back - just to ease the symptoms and make her feel better.  If it is cancer it won't slow down or stop the progression but you can buy a little peace and comfort with it, but it won't last long.  If it's blasto then the pred will help ease some of the resp difficulties in the first few days- but you must start to wean very quickly. 

[Lolasmom]

Oh....bless your heart. 

I think I've mentioned that I "official" adopted Lola about a year and a half ago.  I originally took he to the vet because 1) I had noticed for a few mornings that she would lay in bed after I got up. 2) One day we came home from lunch and she was in her bed in the bedroom (she's a daytime couch dog).  Anyways, I called her and she walked over to me with her chin close to the ground and she was drooling quite a bit.  She was in distress all night long and I took her to the vet in the morning.  I thought she had a neck injury.  The vet diagnosed her with gastoritis and prescribed Pepcid, Prednisone and Amoxy.  While were were there I had him run her follow up 6 month heartworm test.  That came back positive.  Dispite being on Heartguard.  He took an x ray to check her heart and found a spot at the top of her lung.  Her heart looked good (slightly enlarged but not a problem - Stage 1).  He though the spot on the lung might be microfilaria (baby worms) He gave her three Heartguards and told me to come back in about  days for another x-ray.  She did good while she was on the 1 Predinisone a day but when she began to ween off of them she started the drooling again.  She alos vomited bile a couple times and yelp whenever I tried to touch or open her mouth.

 I took her to another vet and he said neck injury.  He took X rays of her back and found a bad cervical disk (not uncommon for Bassets), but he thought it might be rupturing.  He gave us more Prednisone, Flexarill and a pain med (Tramadol?). Not confident with this diagnosis (because she didn't seem to be in any pain when she moved her neck), I took her back and told him that I wanted him to do a blood panel and a urinalysis.  They both came back unremarkable.
 
Still not satisfied I took her back to the first vet (this was around the first of Dec.) who did more blood work (still unremarkable) & took a second x ray of the lung which hadn't changed.  He sent that x ray to Aubun Univ to be read.  Auburn was concerned with the spot but noted that thre was a lymph node right behind it that miight be inflamed and pressing on the esophagus and that could be making the shadow on the lung.  The vet put her on massive Doximethasone (4 for 3 days, 2  for 3 days, 1 a day for 3 days and 1 everyother day for three days.  She stopped drooling and all seemed good.  I was to come back in for another x-ray the week after XMas. 

On Xmas eve night we started to noticesd that she looked bloated and was breating hard.   That just got worse.  I took her back to the vet the following Tues (exactly 2 weeks) and he did another x ray.  Now it was all over her lung and he said it was either Cancer or Blasto.  He did a Blasto blood test (still waiting on results) & started her into the Ket + Lasiks for the edema.  She peed a river the next day and was breathing a little better.  But about the 2nd day into the Ket she started coughing (more like a choke). Thats when I started to give her the Prednisone. That night was awful, she couldn't tay down.  So was Friday she just paced all day.

She seems to get worse at night.  I just don''t know what to think.  She has never stoped eating.  Although she is starting to get a little more reluctant.  I think shee thinks I am poisoning her when I give her these meds.  Oh...My vet got a hold of some intra and we started that on Friday (150mg  1x a day) 

[Lolasmom]

Do they get worse on the meds?  When does it get better...breathing?  I've noticed she likes to be cool especially at night.  I guess my problem is all the meds she was on before we got this far.  I have also read that Ket is used to reduce the cortisol in addition to being an antifungal.  Which I am sure was not good for a dog just coming off so much steroid. 

Thank goodness for this site and all you kind people.  I think ya'll now more than my vet.

[Sadie123]

Well I'm no vet and I'm no doctor, but if the drooling stops with the prednisone, then something tells me she has inflammation in the upper airway.  It could be an enlarged lymph node causing pressure on the trachea/throat area.  The coughing and the x-rays with the lungs being fully involved now also increase more suspicion for tumors.  I hate to say it, but it just appears that way to me.  Have you considered an ultrasound or soft tissue x-ray of the neck?   Maybe even a cat scan - which shows more?  It can become quite expensive.  If you really want to be sure about the fungal infection - then stop all other testing and get the Mira Vista Urine test done right away.  The blood tests aren't nearly as accurate.  The urine antigen test is the best thing out there and will run you approx $150, which should also cover the cost of overnight shipping to the lab (FYI - your vet should start calling them 2 days after you sent it in and can get results faster than waiting for them to e-mail the results to him/her).  If it is a fungal infection  - DO NOT repeat chest xrays.  The lungs do not clear up for a very long time and you would be wasting your money on them.  Just go with the treatment and monitor and treat the symptoms and maybe get another x-ray several months down the road. If the Mira vista test comes back negative, then you've got to maybe plan on spending some money to get more testing done.  If the pred is helping, I'd keep her on it for the time being.  You have to wean them off anyways, especially since she's been on them so long.  (I figure you already know that anyways.)

As for your question - yes most dogs appear to get sicker once starting the antifungals.  If it is indeed blasto then the antifungals start kill the fungus off.  That causes another reaction within the lungs.  The fungus (which turns into a yeast once inside the lungs) creats further inflammation and fluid accumulation which causes more resp distress.  My vet told me that the first 7-10 days are the roughest.  If they survive that, then they have a better chance of beating it.  But to bring you more bad news...Sadie never seemed very ill until she started taking the fluco.  That's when she took a turn for the worse and I had to start her on prednisone.  And she never had blasto - it was just a coincidence that she took a turn for the worse after she started the antifungals.  . All along it was hemangiosarcoma.  I never ran any cancer tests or got any biopsies until after I put her down.  My vet did do an ultrasound to look for tumors in the most common places but never found any.  So after I put her down he asked my permission to biopsy her lung tissue and it came back as hemangiosarcoma.  If it is the blasto then the breathing may not get any better for a few weeks.  Be prepared for round the clock care and nurturing.  Read the posts by Teddy's mom and dad on here.  They are the most recent couple with a dog fighting the respiratory symptoms of blasto.  And you can see how teddy has pulled through the roughest part. 

One thing I have to mention - there are several of us on here who had dogs that appeared to have some trouble with the upper airway.  the night Sadie had it so bad, her breathing sounded so labored and she stood up to breathe better, when she layed down she hung her head off the side of the bed to get her airway opened up better.  I was so scared for her and didn't think she'd make it through the night.  that's when I went to my medicine cabinet and pulled out my own prednisone and gave her some - it was a last ditch effort and it really helped.  But I swore that her breathing sounded like an upper airway obstruction. of some sort.  Something higher up - above her lung tissue was causing her breathing difficulty that night.  Tumor perhaps?  Swollen lymph node?  It had to be one of the two, but I'll never know because the prednisone helped that problem. 

And heart worms??  Oh my - I feel so bad for you and Lola.  That's another compounded problem that you will have to deal with. Just another FYI - my vet stopped prescribing and selling heart guard.  He was seeing too many dogs testing positive for heartworms that were faithfully given that medication.  I think it was 10%.  So about 3 yrs back he switched us over to advantage multi.  Heart guard will pay for the heartworm treatment if you have been giving it.  But it's still a rough treatment to go through and Lola is sick right now. 

Keep posting and keep researching.  There is so much to learn on here and there is so much we all learn from all the dogs and their symptoms.  Things we didn't know before and can put 2 and 2 together.  There are so many people who will respond to your questions who know so much more than I do about the blasto.  But keep the board updated on Lola's progress and keep the questions coming.  Some people actually use this info the further their knowledge of this illness.  BTW - I can tell you are from the south "Ya'll"....Most people on here seem to be from the north  - but I'm from the south too - TN

Prayers to you and Lola.  I hope her breathing gets easier soon. 

Shelley

[Sadie123]

Remember one thing - Lola has pretty much been on the steriods for the past 2 months.  It brings their appetite back, so don't consider "no loss of appetite" signicant here.  Without the pred she probably wouldn't be eating much if she is not feeling well.  Sadie wouldn't eat anything - but 12 hrs on steriods she started eating again. 

And the stomach bloat?  Pay attention to that.  It could be important and it's not normal.  But it could also be a symptom of the steriods - it causes increased thirst and urinary frequency.  Let her have as much water as she wants.  Don't restrict it. 

Prayers and best of luck! Hang in there!

[Cosmo]

The path that your dog is following is much different than my dog's.  I wish you and your dogs all the best.  This site is full of great information that they give willingly.  You are a wonderful pet owner.  Hope that your basset turns the corner soon.
Jacci

[Lolasmom]

Thank you so much for your help. Did you keep Sadie on the steroids?  Did she get bad while on the steroids?  I think the ultrasound is a good idea.  I dont think my vet does ultrasound but I am sure he can give me a referal. 

The lymph node is something we have suspected. What my vet told me was that with Lymphoma it will eventually go to the other lymph nodes too.  He hasn't found any swelling in any of the lymphs he can feel yet. He told me that they will inflame for numerous reasons: bacteria, virus, parasites, fungi or cancer in the general area.  So it could inflame from the heart worms or the fungus or from cancer. 

He did think that the edema was from the Dexomethosone. 

Oh.....yes...we're from Florence, Alabama.  I have the Tennessee River less than 1/4 mile from my house on 2 sides.

It seems so strange to be hoping for this awful disease.  But at least with Blasto she has a chance.

Honestly, I think my vet is just as dumbfounded as I am.  Many things don't make sense for either. 

1>  Her blood work and urinalysis are good
2>  No cough until now and that is slight now.
3>  Even when she would breifly come off the steroids her appitite was good.  She has actually put on 7 lbs since I first took her into the vet.
4>  She never ran a fever (although she has a couple of times since starting the anti-fungals
5> That she was on heavy steroids when this thing exploded.  Steroids usually slow cancer cells but can intensify other infections.

But ultimately she has something in her lungs. 
Its hard because, I'm not sure if I am keeping objectivity or I am being swayed by my hiope that it isn't cancer.  She is still such a happy little girl.  I couldn't imagine taking her in and putting her down. 

I have been giving her 1/2 of  a 25mg Predisone a day now.  I am going to contine that through Tuesday (7 days) and then cut her down to 1/4 for 3 days.

The Dexamethasone is supposed to be 10x stronger than the Prednisone.  I worry she maybe had a bit of Addisons too.  Plus I read that the Ket can be used to remove Cortisol from the body.  Now she started the Ket without ver really bouncing back from the Dexomethasone.

Did you find that Sadie got worse at night and sought out a cool place?   Was her cough more like a gag?  I have only heard Lola cough maybe 3 dtimes in the last two days.

Thank you so much for all your help.  You guys are wonderful and I have learned so much.

[benniesmom]

Hi. I am Barb, and I had Bennie, a Greyhound who died, but not of Blasto.. We really probably licked that one.. But he had congestive heart failure.... He was on Itraconazole, and it was clearly beating the Blasto. which we found in a biospy, confirmed.... Anyway, since the blood work is normal, the Itra might be just fine, but do keep an eye out for signs of heart failure as the Itra can cause that....... It's a "black box" warning item.  Sorry to give you that sort of ugly information, but the more you know, the better chance your adorable girl has.
SO. The coughing.. Gagging is what most people say it is like. That was how Bennie coughed, gagging.... His Blasto wasn't found in his lungs, it was in a rib, so we had thought it was osteosarcoma. This Blasto is is very difficult because it likes to mascarade as other diseases. It hides, too, and when the itra starts to work, it fights back and shows up in other places. I wish more people were checking in because there is so much experience for you with all of this, but if you read posts by Cosmo, and Wilson3 and apope and bulldogger, and Lovemyquincy, to name a few, you will get a ton of good experiential information. Good luck to you. I love Bassetts, and hope the best for your dog. We do know that you should not give Heart guard to a dog taking Itra, just so you know that... and I would ask your vet to look into the black box warnings about Itra, because the heartworm complication has my attention....